Wednesday, November 28, 2018
Edison vs Tesla again
Via the Tesla skeptics, a report on a giant battery pack sold to the Australian government by one of Tesla's companies.
According to the article, the Lithium setup cost 41 million Aussie dollars, which is 29 million US.
For comparison I'm using the retail price list from Iron Edison, figured for small installations. The price for a huge installation would involve a lot less overhead, but I don't have access to those numbers and I'm not going to ask them for a quote! So the best I can do is plain multiplication.
Using the retail numbers, the biggest available pack is 48 volts at 1000 amp-hours = 48 KWH. This setup is listed at $42k dollars = $875 per KWH. If you simply put together enough of these to reach 100 MWH, the cost would be $87.5 million. About three times the cost for the Tesla-branded setup.
The real difference comes in upkeep and replacement, not initial cost. Lithium batteries last two years, so the Lithium outfit was already halfway to the first replacement point when it finished testing. Nickel-Iron lasts INDEFINITELY. Iron Edison recommends flushing and replacing the electrolyte every TEN years. NiFe batteries made by Edison have lasted 90 years in continuous use.
I wouldn't want to assume 90 years, but I don't need to go that far. The breakover point will come MUCH earlier.
= = = = =
Beyond the simple numerical argument: The Github/Debtist approach to life keeps everything vulnerable and dependent on a complex supply chain that OFTEN breaks down.
When your power storage requires constant fast replacement, you're always on the verge of a breakdown, so you put most of your effort into building ever more reserves and spares.
When your storage lasts indefinitely, you can RELAX. You don't need constant intensive attention and labor to keep up with the breakdowns.
VULNERABILITY IS THE PURPOSE OF DEBTISM. No confidence, no self-defense, no relaxation, no time for anything except serving the debt-masters and Github-masters.
The 100-megawatt lithium-ion Tesla battery, the most powerful of its kind in the world, has been operating alongside French company Neoen's Hornsdale Wind Farm near Jamestown in South Australia's north since the beginning of last summer.The article is focusing on a missed deadline. Tesla and its Aussie partner promised completion in 100 days or your money back. They did complete the unit itself, but didn't complete testing until 6 months later. Because Elon is God, the government didn't bother to claim the guarantee. God is all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful. If God wants to take a little longer to create something that never existed before, we mere mortals must be patient. BUT: There's a much more important implication of the time delay, connected to the choice of lithium ion batteries. Let's compare with Edison's eternal Nickel-Iron batteries.
According to the article, the Lithium setup cost 41 million Aussie dollars, which is 29 million US.
For comparison I'm using the retail price list from Iron Edison, figured for small installations. The price for a huge installation would involve a lot less overhead, but I don't have access to those numbers and I'm not going to ask them for a quote! So the best I can do is plain multiplication.
Using the retail numbers, the biggest available pack is 48 volts at 1000 amp-hours = 48 KWH. This setup is listed at $42k dollars = $875 per KWH. If you simply put together enough of these to reach 100 MWH, the cost would be $87.5 million. About three times the cost for the Tesla-branded setup.
The real difference comes in upkeep and replacement, not initial cost. Lithium batteries last two years, so the Lithium outfit was already halfway to the first replacement point when it finished testing. Nickel-Iron lasts INDEFINITELY. Iron Edison recommends flushing and replacing the electrolyte every TEN years. NiFe batteries made by Edison have lasted 90 years in continuous use.
I wouldn't want to assume 90 years, but I don't need to go that far. The breakover point will come MUCH earlier.
= = = = =
Beyond the simple numerical argument: The Github/Debtist approach to life keeps everything vulnerable and dependent on a complex supply chain that OFTEN breaks down.
When your power storage requires constant fast replacement, you're always on the verge of a breakdown, so you put most of your effort into building ever more reserves and spares.
When your storage lasts indefinitely, you can RELAX. You don't need constant intensive attention and labor to keep up with the breakdowns.
VULNERABILITY IS THE PURPOSE OF DEBTISM. No confidence, no self-defense, no relaxation, no time for anything except serving the debt-masters and Github-masters.
Labels: defensible spaces, defensible times, Patient things
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